Juniors

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

My husband wants to carry on the tradition of his family and name our baby, if it's a boy, after him, John.

 

I hate the idea of naming a kid after yourself. I told him that when we were dating. I'm willing to compromise by having John be the middle name. So, he wants John Henry and I want Henry John. there is just no way in hell I'll name a son John. I'll also put in that his dad's name is Alex and so is his nephew and it's annoying and confusing. John was his grandfather, he was named after him yet he goes on about the tradition. I'd also like to point out that I have a son from another relationship who knows the truth but John is the only father he has ever known.

 

so, besides the fact I hate the tradition all together, it's not even a real tradition, I don't like the name, it's too boring and uncreative, how will that make our son feel if we have a boy and he gets named after his dad when our current son doesn't even have the same last name. Doesn't that send the message that the baby is more important because he's blood? he already has low self esteem and depression issues.
Mostly I'm just curious of your opinion on the matter, plus, if it really is a boy, I need a good solid argument to win with the compromise (I've already agreed to one middle name if it's a boy where myself and our three kids all have two.)

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Comments

[unboundvoice.livejournal.com]

Would you compromise by putting John Henry on the bc but calling the child Henry? I've known lots of people that go by their middle name and who's parents planned it that way. Sure it might be slightly annoying on the first day of school to correct the teacher and whatnot but not unbearably so.

[being-lola-star.livejournal.com]

I have a friend who was literally the fourth or fifth in a line of Jameses (Jamess?). I didn't know until we were in high school that his first name was Jame and he only went by Bradley/Brad because ti was his middle name. I thought then and still do now that it's the stupidest thing.

I also have a child in my class who is the third in a line, first, middle and last name. I would put what his name is but Dad is CRAZY and I don't want him to ever come across it (he's one of those people who would google himself. Sometimes I greet the son and dad responds and they even have the same bloody nickname. On all the child's things dad writes CEH III, as if we don't realize that the batman lunch box isn't dad's. -_-

As far as I'm concerned, it's a silly tradition and I don't like it at all. My younger sister's middle name is Karla-Anne after our Opa (Karl) and three of our greatgrandmothers. I almost think my parents did it to spite people because they all wanted to name my sister after someone.

I would bring up the point of your current child possibly feeling left out/unwanted. Then I'd offer Dad veto power on one name on your list to make up for you vetoing his top pick. Because John is such a common name, there are a lot of variations. Maybe suggest one of those but veto "John" entirely.

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

I don't even really do nicknames. I pick a name because THAT'S what I want to use. And middle names are for honoring people. Esme's name doesn't honor anyone, heh, but Elijah and Amelia's do; not even direct family, just people that were important at the time. My mom picked Elijah's, the names of those people were really important to her and I really didn't care, and Amelia, our good friend's wife's name is Rosie so we gave Amelia Rose Marie. Esme's was just for fun, and if we had another girl I REALLY want to honor our mom's using their names, and if we have a boy, and John is so set on honoring himself/his grandfather, then John keeps in the theme.

Really, IF we have a boy, he should just be super stoked he's having a boy and the Greybiehl name won't die with him, which is the stress his grandfather laid on him when he was young...HAVE A BOY. I mean, it's SO important to him that he's already talking about trying for a 5th if this one is a girl and I'm thinking, WHOA NOW, maybe *I* should be the one to get fixed after this baby, LMAO, four is my limit.

[devonrexlvr.livejournal.com]

My husband isn't a "jr" technically, but his first name is the same as his dad's first name. His dad doesn't have a middle name, where as they gave my husband a middle name - thus why he's not a jr. He has to go by his middle name with family/friends who know his father, just to differentiate. He's always had problems with the correct mail being delivered to him vs his father - even though they lived in different houses.
Really though, you're carrying the baby, you have just as much say in the name as your husband. No is no, and if you don't want John as his first name don't bend - no matter what the argument is. Plus I think the one about your existing son is more than enough that I wouldn't let the "jr" thing fly.

[lil-cherub.livejournal.com]

I went back and found the post with your kid's names and honestly... Elijah, Amelia, Esme and JOHN? Its just so... well, you already said it, its boring and uncreative. You have such great taste in names and John just doesn't sound like it fits in the sibset. I would keep trying to compromise with the middle name. If you need another reason, google "John Henry" and see all the hits. Its a historical figure, the Red Sox owner, business trader, its a common name since Henry is a common last name.

Are you definitely looking to use Henry or are their other names on your list? You could both compromise with a new first name and then use "John Henry" as a middle. It would give you the double middle name and it would give you and your husband a chance to find another name you can both agree on. Suggestions could be Ethan, Evan, Finn, Gavin, Levi, Logan, Julien, Kai, Milo/Miles, Reese...

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

I've always liked Henry, there aren't many other boy names I like at all and he's knocked down, literally, every suggestion I've had. I could go through and try to make a boy name list, but, I dunno, he's so stubborn! My favorites have been Leopold, Benjamin, Harvey, Emmett, and Henry. I had some others but he said no to them all and I can't remember them, heh.

[lil-cherub.livejournal.com]

Benjamin is my oldest, so its a great pick IMO! I also love Emmett but I husband threw down the veto on me. :-/

[tokossel.livejournal.com]

I think Benjamin and Leopold sound best best with your other kids name. I also think Gabriel, Solomon and Oscar would go well. Henry is a classic though!

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

BTW, I love Milo, it's so sweet!

[roseofjuly.livejournal.com]

Elijah is a biblical name and so is John. I don't think it's out of place, and anyway, children are individuals and their names don't really need to fit together like a puzzle.

[behindgrey-eyes.livejournal.com]

Henry John is nice. I'm not into the name because I know a lot of Johns. I have two uncles, one on each side of the family with that name. Generally its the older generation where I'm from so when I hear of or meet a young kid called it, its so strange to me :p

I also dislike the direct naming thing. I've always loved the names Grace, Rose and Patrick which are the names of my grandparents, but I'd never outright name a kid that. Middle name, most definitely. I agree that it gets confusing as I have a friend called Robert and so is his dad. He still lives at home and has probably opened mail and taken calls for his dad more times than I've had hot meals :p

[pirahan.livejournal.com]

What about Jonathan or callin him jack?

[ohhowlovely.livejournal.com]

My fiancee was adopted by his step-dad at age 4. His mom and step-dad had another 2 children and their first son together is a George IV but goes by Geordie. My fiancee has never felt badly that he wasn't a junior or named after anyone.

I felt the same as you about naming my son a Jr. I ended up naming him Cole Lucas (My fiancees name is Luke) so he still got some of his name, but not his first name.

[mommy.livejournal.com]

technically, if he was named after his grandfather, it should be your grandson that is named John next... right? i'm with you, though. i dislike the jr, III, ect. thing. John as a middle name should be perfectly sufficient. i hope you guys can get it worked out!

[r0ck-y0ur-s0ul.livejournal.com]

My nephew is a Jr. and I gave my sister a ton of grief on it because, like you, I think it's dumb (and my BIL is an idiot so I'm sad my nephew is named after him). We all just call him JJ (he's a Jason Jr.) or Jay and he prefers it (he doesn't much like being named after his Dad either).

My husband is a twin and his brother has the same first name as their Dad (my husband's first name is my FIL's middle name). It makes things confusing (two Tom's) and it kinda hurts my husbands feelings (even though I think he got the better first name). When we have children he has flat out refused to do a Jr. if we happen to have a boy. For what it's worth FIL's name is Thomas Patrick, husband is Patrick Stephen, and his twin brother is Thomas William.

[after-the-ashes.livejournal.com]

As someone who is adopted and has a brother who is also adopted who didn't get the family name, and then a cousin who didn't even carry the last name part of the tradition (my aunt's son - had the first name part of the tradition, but they were all ____ with last name _____son) did, yes that is messed up on top of it being a stupid tradition to begin with...

[sayga.livejournal.com]

My cousin has two bio kids, and then adopted their 3rd child from overseas. They named him after the adoptive father, so the adopted son is "daddy Jr" not the bio son. I don't like naming kids after parents (grandparents, aunts, uncles are fine to me, but not the parents!) but in this case, I think it's a nice way to make the single adopted child feel like he is truly 100% part of the family.

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

That's really sweet:)

[melly-issa.livejournal.com]

My husband's family has this *tradition* too. Except, thank GOD, they do it slightly differently. You just have to pick some country's version of John - my husband's grandfather is Jack, father is John, he is Ian, my baby in utero will be Sean. There's also Evan, and some other more ethnic ones like Juan & Yannick.

My husband was pushing hard for John, but I really hate it so we've compromised on Sean.

[hermione-vader.livejournal.com]

Ivan and Johan/nes would be other nice picks for that sort of tradition.

[ealexsism.livejournal.com]

Name tho kid John Henry and call him Henry. You need to compromise.

[devonrexlvr.livejournal.com]

You're kidding, right??? She does not need to compromise on a name she doesn't want as a first name.

[kitchen-poet.livejournal.com]

Especially if the name she doesn't want carries the possibility of making her oldest son feel shunned or left out! +1 for devonrexlvr's comment, OP.

[roseofjuly.livejournal.com]

Why not? Her husband has to compromise. He really wants John.

A compromise is when both parties give a little.

[devonrexlvr.livejournal.com]

Seriously? did you bother to read the whole post???

If her husband gets John as a first name then he is in no way compromising. The OP made valid points on why she does not want to use John as a first name, but she'd be ok with it being a middle name. Therefore, logic would present that compromise for both parties would be to use John as a middle name.

Put yourself in the OP's shoes, would you even further want to make your existing child feel even more ostracized when the kid doesn't even share your/your current husband's last name? Sure, kick a child that already has low self esteem and depression issues (per the OP) in the balls basically, see if he'll commit suicide (which people do for things like being rejected and whatnot).

*edited for a few typos

[hermione-vader.livejournal.com]

Go with Henry John---it's a very nice combination. It's also best if you want to keep things even with your older son. Honestly, jrs. seem really self-indulgent in general, and I can see why you wouldn't want to do that with this child. Reinforce that you want to do what's right by your older son's well-being.

I'll also put in that his dad's name is Alex and so is his nephew and it's annoying and confusing.

This is why I'm against juniors and such things---my mother's family has seven James/Jims thanks to all the honoring, plus in-laws.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

Self indulgent, yes. It just seems so self-indulgent and narcissistic to name a child after yourself. Like, "I'm so great that this is a mini version of ME." I just don't like it at all. It'd be a totally different thing if the father DIED while the mom was pregnant or something. In a case like that, I'd be down 100% with naming after the father. But just for kicks or "tradition," it's kinda gross.

My family has 3 generations of Phillips. Each has a different middle name, but it's stupid and annoying and once my brother's voice got deeper (and therefore his friends' voices too) answering the phone at home was obnoxious. If they asked for Phillip, did they want my dad or my brother? And many people who called didn't realize there were 2 Phillips, so I had to sleuth out the age of the person calling to see if they were more likely to be calling my brother or my dad. And they were probably trying to sleuth out MY age so they could answer "do you want to speak to my brother or my father?" properly too... It was a PAIN.

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

With my FIL and nephew, one thing that really annoys me is that it's JUST Alex. Couldn't even be Alexander?? I actually like Alexander for a middle name and marrying into this family just totally ruined that for me, LOL.

My mom dated this guy and John was the family name. His first son had it, his first son had it, the second son's first son had it. They had a family reunion and there was something, like, 30-50 John's there, I can't remember, but it was INSANE. The oldest in the line would go by John and his sons and grandsons, etc, would go by their middle name. So out of that family we had 5 John's, and then I married a John, and my mom's boss is a John, one of her coworkers is a John, honestly, when my mom talks about a John, I have NO clue who she's talking about until I can pick it out of the context.

[piperwest12.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on both the stupidity of the naming traditional nd the fact that your older boy may feel excluded some how. Also if before you were even thinking of having a kid you made it clear to him that you would not be having any juniors, then I don't see why there is a conversation about it now. I wouldn't use it even as a middle name.

[audiobiblio.livejournal.com]

Namesakes are one thing, but I've never been a fan of giving a child his father's full name. Daniel is the second and I made it clear right off the bat that there would NOT be a Daniel III. For a variety of reasons. Just... no. And in your case, I would be even more against it because of Elijah. I think it's absolutely unnecessary and the effects that it could have on Elijah could be detrimental.

And I should add that Daniel's dad goes by either Danny or Dan, while Daniel obviously goes by Daniel and nothing else. WTF would we have called another Daniel? By his middle name, which I hate? No thank you.

[kitchen-poet.livejournal.com]

Eeeek, it does make me uncomfortable naming a second child after a dad, because you'd still want the older child to feel included and part of the family, and that your husband is still his dad, you know? Especially if your first son doesn't have the same last name! Your husband should understand that.


Personally, for the inclusion reason, I wouldn't even be comfortable using John as a middle name. Maybe compromise with Henry Jacob/Jerome/Julian/Jack/Any other J name, or a name with a similar meaning to John? Good luck.


(Reading the other comments, maybe I'm overreacting? My DH had a stepfather when he was really young, and before the stepfather had biological children with DH's mother, he always made a big deal of making DH and his siblings feel like he was their dad. Then he had his own biological children, and played extreme favorites with them. He just generally treated his biological kids a lot better, made sure they had his family names, etc, and it really, really hurt DH and his siblings feelings. None of them are really "over it" even as adults. Just be careful.)

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

That's what I worry about. My son is...he's different, so when the girls are treated differently because they are girls and they are much younger than him, sometimes he feels that we don't love him but we love the girls. He doesn't see all the things he gets because he's the oldest and older in general, he only sees special interest paid to the girls, but they are 5-7 years younger than him so of course the rules are slightly different, I try to remind him, like, they might have more presents on Christmas but his are more expensive, you know? That kind of thing. He likes his own last name and wants to keep it but I feel if we had a boy and had John's name in there, he'd want to know why and not understand any reason John could give him, not that I think there would be one that wouldn't sound horrible to a little boy! I'm already worried enough if we did have a boy that was more normal it'd put a big enough riff in the family in his eyes. I'm just hoping for another girl, it'd make my husband sad but I think it could keep the family happier as a whole, unfortunately.

[corielcries.livejournal.com]

Would he be willing to use John Henry as the two middle names, and go with a different first name? That way the baby has his name in there, there are two middle name like your other kids' names, and you can go with a first name you both like.

[roseofjuly.livejournal.com]

I actually really like the name John precisely because it is boring and 'uncreative'. I don't understand the new trend where people have to be "creative" with their kids' names and use them as an expression of themselves...the kid is a person, not an art project, IMO. Definitely a name should be something you like and that's pleasing to you, but I don't think it needs to show your ability to be creative. I think the other reason is a more legitimate one - worrying about how your existing son may feel about the second son being named John.

I personally don't have strong feelings either way about naming a son after the father. I think it can be a great way to honor someone, but it can also come off a bit conceited when a father does it to his son. My grandfather's name is Charles Henry, and he named my dad that, and I really like his name. But I wouldn't name my son Ron Antione - not because I refuse to name him after my husband, but because I actually just dislike that name (and the middle name is spelled wrong. That's the way it's actually spelled, though. I don't know why. Ron is named after his father, too, but they have different middle names. I have no idea why). I think it also just cuts down on confusion with the kid and dad are named something different. My dad and his dad didn't have that problem, though, because everyone calls my dad Chuck/ie. He's 51 years old and people still call him Chuckie or Chuck. I didn't know what my dad's real name was for a while when I was younger, lol.

Do you really need an 'argument' to win the compromise? You should both like the name that you're naming your son - I think that should be your argument. I wouldn't use the argument that John is boring and uncreative, because I don't see those as negatives AND you run the risk of insulting your husband.

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

I say argument because every time the subject of names is brought up, as in, I'd like to hear what he likes as names or to tell him some pretty names I found, HE turns it into an argument, and next thing I know we're yelling at each other and going to bed mad.