When is a pattern a theme?

[dustthouart.livejournal.com]

So we're gearing up for TTC #2, and naming #2 is a whole different thing than naming #1. My daughter's name is Philippa, so Philip is naturally out for a boy. There's having a name that "goes with" the first name, but I'm also thinking about not wanting to trap myself in future (since we will hopefully be going beyond two).

For example, I like the name Petra. In my opinion, same first-initial doesn't become a theme until kid #3. Eg, having two kids named Alice and Alexander isn't a theme, but if you name the third one Andrew, that seems like a theme.

But for other things, I think even two can be a theme. Like, having daughters named Lily and Violet, or sons named Thor and Odin. The theme leaps out at you.

Where I'm unsure is stuff like ethnic origin. A significant portion, but not all, of the names on our list are names traditionally associated with/popular in the British isles (like Petra, Iona, Rhys, Benedict). Are you ever locked into an ethnicity with naming? Do some ethnicities mesh better than others, perhaps because of related languages or cultures? Does it matter whether the child has the ethnicity of a name in his/her heritage? Can you name Mikhail and Dimitry's little sister Giulia? How about if you're part-Italian and part-Russian?

Ditto the more nouveau style. If your three are named Cooper, Mason and Piper, should you name a fourth an occupation surname as well? Will people wonder why you named your first two Makenzi and Zaiden, and your last two John and Sarah? (I know I would wonder what happened between #2 and #3.)

Is it better to jettison a theme that isn't working, or stick with it to avoid name disharmony/sibling resentment? ("How come everyone is named after a city but me?" or "Why did you give my brother a real name and my sister and I have made-up names?")

Interested in everyone's thoughts. (Cross-posting to my own journal.)

Comments

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

I think you should name your children whatever you want without feeling you have to stay within any kind if theme. Might people wonder? Sure. Who cares. My kids are Elijah, Amelia, and Esme. If we had another boy he would be Elliott. A girl might be Lucy. We have similarities in names as far as letters, but Meh, oh well, though I'm sure Lucy would feel really out of our theme, but, its all about what name you love cause you are the one who has to say it a million times.

[dustthouart.livejournal.com]

Your children seem to have a very eclectic mix of names, so I don't think either Elliott or Lucy would be out of place.

I started thinking about this topic a while back when there were some posts with theme sets. There was one in which I think they all started with the letter R and were also nature names (like Rain, Raven, Rose, and River), and the OP wanted advice as to whether they should drop the theme as they couldn't agree on any other names that fit it. The consensus in the comment, with which I concurred at the time, is that after three or four kids with this theme, to drop it for kid #4 or 5 (I don't remember which) would cause problems.

Rain, River, Raven, Rose and Lucy? Now there Lucy will definitely feel out of theme.

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

My husband's dad's siblings, all six or seven, have J names. His name is Alex. If anything everyone finds it oddly funny.

[rorylareina.livejournal.com]

I would expect, but not assume, Philippa and Petra's sister to have a name with a similar "British" sound (or a similar style), but I wouldn't expect her name to start with P, necessarily. I wouldn't find Philippa, Petra, and Giulia out of the ordinary, for example, because they're all very feminine and not super popular. I think the biggest head-scratcher is your McKenzie and Zayden/John and Sarah example; otherwise I'm a big fan of anything goes.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-dahling-/]

I agree with you about the theme. After 2 it becomes a theme. I don't think there's anything wrong with it though. Also, YOUR personal style makes a difference. Makenzi and Zayden's mother is not likely to like the names John and Sarah. Same with John and Sarah's mom. And I don't think you're locked into an ethnicity as long as the names go together.

[dustthouart.livejournal.com]

I do know of a couple of cases where the oldest kids names were vastly different from the younger kids names. Because of remarriage, because of a large age gap between kids, because of religious conversion, etc. But there always DOES seem to be a cause.

If I had gotten pregnant and given birth at fourteen, I would have chosen the name Empathy for a girl, which is.... definitely not what I would choose now. XD So I think name tastes can change for sure.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-dahling-/]

And my name tastes never change. I chose the name for my first child when I was 12 and I still love it! lol

[pleasure-past.livejournal.com]

For me, I'd say that the most important thing is just not having one single odd child out. For example, I am one of three children. My name and my little brother's name both start with the same letter, and my old brother's name starts with a different letter. That's weird to me. If I were my parents, I wouldn't have done that.

On the other hand, my mom is one of ten kids. She has a name that starts with J, and one of her older brothers has a name that starts with J. But there are eight other kids with names that start with different letters. That's not weird to me, and it wouldn't be even if there was a third J child. (Four J children would be an "lol you really like J names," five or six our be a pattern, eight or nine would be where it would be weird if there were exceptions.)

So, basically, Phillipa, Petra, and Rhys would be weird to me, but Phillipa, Petra, Rhys, and Benedict wouldn't. Just Phillipa and Petra wouldn't be weird either.

[jadedinnocent.livejournal.com]

Philippa & Petra stand out to me as having the 'theme' of feminised boys names, so if you had a 3rd girl, for example, 'Alexandra' would fit & carry on the 'theme' (even tho it isn't a P name) whereas 'Amy' would seem really out of place to me.

[lovetokate.livejournal.com]

This is a very interesting post! I have an Emilie, Hannah, and Leah. Should we have another child, I tend to really love biblical names (John, Samson, Sarah) or names that end in that soft "a" sound for girls (Cora, Nora, Clara, Celia.) I worry that should I got either of those directions, it would definitely seem like a theme, coming after Hannah & Leah. It wouldn't be, though...those just happen to be our tastes! So does it bother me enough to not use either of those types of names? Quite possibly. I almost feel like we should use a name with the long "e" ending to balance things out. :P But Emilie was born several years ago & while I still do love her name (and particularly that French spelling), other names with that ending (Bailey, Haley, Riley) are not my style at all.

[how-obscure.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize Petra was considered a name associated with the British Isles. I always think of Germany and Eastern Europe. Philippa, Petra, and Guilia would just seem like you were grabbing names from all over Europe to me. I would see Philippa and Petra as two P names (not really a theme with just two) and also as two feminizations of male names (possibly a theme with only two) so a name like Guilia would might stand out somewhat in that respect.

Personally, I like names to be from similar backgrounds, and in the case of the British Isles, I separate things down further a lot of the time. For example, I put Irish and Scottish together and English as separate for the most part. I could see brothers Callum and Mackenzie (two personal favorites of mine), but Callum and Harrison just don't go together to me. Harrison is too English. Going the other way, Harrison and William go together. Now, there are exceptions, I could see Callum, Mackenzie, and Maeve just as easily as Callum, Mackenzie, and Margaret even though Margaret is English. It has been used enough in Scotland historically for it to blend in my eyes.. Then, names have to just vibe right, which is not something that can concretely be explained...nor is the fact that I associate a lot of names with colors so the colors have to go together in some way. I don't know. I'm rambling.

I tried to write out my opinions on whether to stick with a theme or not and comment on the more recent trends, but it turns out, my ideas on that aren't completely set. I can see multiple points of view so it was getting really wishy-washy and long-winded. So I end this comment here.

[dustthouart.livejournal.com]

Hmm, you're right about Petra! I went and looked up the full lists for both England and Wales and the US, and when you adjust for population (the US has like 5 times as many births per year as England and Wales), the name Petra is almost exactly the same popularity in both countries.

I think why it feels British to me (and apparently others, given the other comments so far) is that most feminizations (Charlotte, Philippa, Harriet) feel British to Americans. And since Peter doesn't have any other obvious feminizations in English, it seems like Petra must be the English one too.

[hollyberrie05.livejournal.com]

I see Philippa and Petra as a theme with P names, but would I think it's weird to add Rhys to the mix? No because it is also unusual. I have a Ewan and Cecily and if we were to ever have another, it would be Callum or Arabella, so we also lean towards names associated with the British Isles. However, I don't think of it as we have a theme going on. We just happen to like those names.

[hey-doey-doey.livejournal.com]

I think I agree with you that three makes a theme. For example, my brother and I both have very traditional names that both start with C, while my sister has a very uncommon name from her birth year (that's recently become very trendy) that's a different letter from mine and my brother's. Had she been another traditional C name, it definitely would've been odd if my parents then picked a trendy/nontraditional name with a different letter for a fourth child.

On the other hand, now that my sister's name has become so popular and mine and my brother's have become less popular, there is definitely more of a separation between our names and hers. Obviously name trends are difficult to predict, but I think it's probably worth considering whether the names in a sibset could end up being different enough for a mismatch like that to happen. (My mom, for one, hates that my sister's name is so popular now. While my brother and I were named for family members, my sister was her first chance to pick a more original name and now it doesn't even seem very original anymore.)

I also think the length of the names makes a difference. For example, a one syllable name like Lee sounds too short in the same sibset as a Christopher and a Jennifer. In the same thread, it would be odd to have a longer name mixed in with a few shorter names, unless you were planning on a nickname.

Incidentally, I like Phillippa and Petra together. They go well without being too cutesy or matchy, and are definitely different enough that I don't think you'd have the problem of having two similar names and then having to break pattern for a third.

[sictransitsuzy.livejournal.com]

I think it can be a theme starting from 2 names. Philippa and Petra are not obvious to me though (I am from the U.S. and don't really get the British association everyone is referring to) other than that they both start with P.

I adore Petra, though. The only place I've ever heard of it aside from this community is from the book Ender's Game. I love her character!