Nicknames as full names

[snoglobel.livejournal.com]

Sorry for two posts in one day.

I was thinking the other day (and posted a little bit about this in the comments of an older post) about nicknames that are now seen as fully standalone names.  I was also thinking about nickname trends in general.

Traditional nicknames that are now full names:
John -> Jack
Elizabeth -> Eliza
Mary -> Molly
Lucille -> Lucy
Maximillian (and all others recently mentioned here) -> Max
Sarah -> Sally
Martha -> Matty

Can you think of any others?

And for trends in general:
Why did Mary become Molly, Sarah become Sally?  I understand Pauline to Polly, Patricia to Patty, but there is less connection between the others.  Perhaps because R and L are both liquid semi-vowels, and adding the -ly makes it a diminutive?  I can also see Martha to Matty, or Elizabeth to Betty since the TH is a hard sound to say and sometimes T is easier.  But why haven't other nicknames caught on?  Norah isn't Norry or Nolly.  Cecile isn't Ceily very often.  And where does Jack come from with John?

Do any of you have resources for nickname trends historically, or how they've changed over time?  Or any analysis of nicknames?

Thanks!

Comments

[inthespaces.livejournal.com]

My daughter is Elanor and we call her Ellie.

[sandtree.livejournal.com]

Lucy is actually a full name, and not a nickname for Lucille. Well, I suppose it CAN be a nickname for Lucille, but it was always a full name in its own right.

Also, I'd never heard of Matty as a nickname for Martha, only for Matilda. Interesting! I like it as a nickname for Martha.

Here's a great link (http://www.namenerds.com/uucn/advice/nickhistory.html) about the history of nicknames.

[snoglobel.livejournal.com]

I had never heard of a straight up Lucy other than I love Lucy which was also short for Lucille, so to me it is is a nickname turned real name.

Thanks for the link that was interesting. I'm still looking for linguistic articles that try to chronicle the trends, but it's hard to search.

[duckduckcaboose.livejournal.com]

-Nora[h], itself is a nickname for Eleanor, so it would be really weird to make it further into Norry or Nolly.
-Sadie used to be a nickname for, Sarah as well.
-Hank used to be a nickname for either Henry or John which I don't understand.
-Harry was a nickname for both Henry and Harold.
-Frank is sometimes referred to as a nickname for Francis, but also may have been a precursor to Francis... Francis comes from Franciscus meaning "Frenchman" and France was settled by a group of people known as The Franks which is how France got it's name. (Confusing right?!)
-Minnie was once a short form of Wilhelmina.
-May/Mae was a nickname for Mary, Margaret, Mabel, etc.
-Jennie/Jenny used to be a nickname for Jane, then when Jennifer became more popular in the early 1900s, it was used for a nickname for Jennifer as well.
-Jessie/Jessy used to be a nickname for Jean, but when Jessica rose in popularity, it became more closely associated with Jessica.
-Nancy was once known as a nickname for Ann[e].

It's actually always been common to use nicknames as full names though.
Even if you go back to the 1890 SSA names list.
Making the top 100 for boys:
Frank (6), Harry (12), Fred (15), Joe (20), Charlie (21), Will (27), Willie (34), Sam (36), Tom (40), Bert (47), Jim (49), Ed (55), Ben (58), Charley (59), Jack (77), Archie (83), Alex (92), Leo (93), Ray (95), Dan (98), Jerry (99).

Making the top 100 for girls:
Minnie (5), Annie (11), Nellie (18), Carrie (20), Bessie (23), Jennie (24), Hattie (27- short for Harriet), Mattie (29- short for Matilda), Lillie (34- often associated with being a nickname for Lillian when spelled this way), Jessie (36), Lula (39), Lena (43), Lucy (44), Maggie (46), Fannie (49), Dora (51), Nora (56), May (57), Mamie (58), Nancy (62), Effie (63), Sallie (64), Nettie (65), Della (66), Lizzie (67), Susie (69), Mae (71), Etta (72), Sadie (74), Katie (76), Elsie (78), Kate (79), Mollie (81), Addie (83), Eliza (85), Lulu (86), Nannie (87), Lottie (88), Belle (90)

[snoglobel.livejournal.com]

I didn't think it was a new thing, I just thought it was interesting to see which names went this way and which didn't. Actually it would be interesting to see if any reversed and went back to solely nicknames after a period of popularity.

I didn't even think of Eleanor -> Nora, I just thought of Ellie as the first comment said.

You've thought of a lot :) Thanks. (I thought you might reply to this post)

[duckduckcaboose.livejournal.com]

Haha yeah, I could've gone on but I didn't want to totally take over your post. It's really interesting though! I learned a lot of these from my baby name book collection and from Behind the Name. I love finding baby name books from the 70's/80's because they list a lot of names as "the diminutive of..." that I just think of as stand-alone names. Norah is one of them, definitely.

There are also several names which are Anglicized versions of the nicknames for old Germanic/medieval/etc. names that we now think of as their own names. For example: Emma (http://www.behindthename.com/name/emma), Maud[e] (http://www.behindthename.com/name/maud), Ava (http://www.behindthename.com/name/ava-3), and Karen (http://www.behindthename.com/name/karen-1)... Behind the Name really is your best resource. They are the most accurate source I've found. The related names feature is especially helpful.

[lilacmermaid.livejournal.com]

The one I think is strangest is probably Peg(gy) as a nickname for Margaret.

[kaoriz.livejournal.com]

Mentalfloss has a great article on the origins of these names:
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/56471

[cremepuff.livejournal.com]

I heard something about it possibly being a spin-off of Meg, which is itself a nickname for Margaret--as in, someone called a girl "Meggie-Peggie" in a sing-song, rhyming way, and then it just got shortened to Peggie/Peggy. That doesn't explain where Meg came from, though!

[cremepuff.livejournal.com]

I found another set of names that seem to suggest interesting nicknaming trends. Jody certainly applies on many fronts because not only has it turned into a name in its own right, but its gender usage switched!

Christopher-> Kit
Edward-> Ned
Richard-> Dick (my father in law!)
Joseph-> Jody (I knew it was originally a male name, but had no idea it was short for Joseph)
Charles-> Chuck
Barbara-> Babs
Elizabeth-> Libby, Bessie
James-> Jim
Robert-> Bob, Bobby (my former band director's real given first name is Bobby)
William-> Bill, Billy
Theodore-> Ted, Teddy

[j0yous.livejournal.com]

I have a cousin named Helen, but she is called Nellie. I don't understand how you get to Nellie from Helen, but I like it anyway.

[qtshorty1625.livejournal.com]

This is just me speculating, so don't hold me to it. But, maybe Margaret was shortened to Margie. If you take out the hard "r", you get Maggie. Maybe looking for a different nickname, this could be changed to Meggie and therefore shortened to Meg.

All I really know is that my aunt's name was Marguerite but we all called her Meg, and my great uncle's wife is called Mike. I had a neighbor growing up named Margaret who we called Maggie.

[qtshorty1625.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen this, but I think Hank can stand alone now (though still a nickname for Henry, Henrik, etc.)